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2005-06-07 - 11:41 a.m.

conversations lala7


> The absolute only thing about myself that I don't like
> and that I am insecure about is being fat.


I want to hug you right now because I do not want you to hurt or feel uncomfortable or insecure, I do not want to be a impetus for any negative feeling in you... I love your mind and want so much to be your friend because I think we could give each other important and meaningful life-supports and much fun... I also (selfishly) do not want to blow the opportunity to have you be my friend...

listening to your voice and thinking about the words you wrote and said, I am as certain I can and want to love you without hesitation... physically, I have a hang up about fat... my hang up, my inadequacy, my stupidity... I hope my thought process does not mess up what I still feel is and can be a beatiful relationship...

I may be as insecure about fat as you are... I was a toothpick (or so they called me) until I was about eight or nine (I moved to a new place/family at 6y/o and physical activity reduced considerably because I had fewer friends and started school and then puberty set in and my oral hungers increased and I started living with a fat man who probably influenced my eating habits)... I was a fat kid from age 9 through 14 and was never more alone or down on myself... I had to shop in the special sections of stores for special clothes, not for the normal kids clothes... I tried to ignore the way others treated me, but what gnawed at me most was the way I felt physically... I felt lazy and tired and inadequate because I could not play at the my sone level I used to... always picked last when picked at all and not counted on for anything in the schoolyard... other fat kids seemed to be even more insecure when I got closer to them and they seemed to have a chip on their shoulder around thinner kids and I still remember hoping I was not developing the my sone defensive attitude... I think maybe I overcompensated and developed the reverse... I wonder things like - is fat a sign of deeper issues, deeper neediness, dependency, instability?... I think so... I felt it was in me... never before did I want to change my thinking pattern and suddenly I want to change it now... that is because of you... I have been with one person bigger than me and it was not by choice, I was on the verge of passing out drunk in the late seventies and she climbed on top... she drooled on me... it was unpleasant... I find a tear in my eye to think that all the connections we apparently could be making might be diminished because of this one aspect of our personalities and seriously want to work to not let that happen...

I can only hope you feel the my sone... for me, I think I may have found a soulmate, a person, a mind that actually thinks like me, that I am not just a prospective sex partner or physical relationship... that I am not just a guy, but another mind who might be one of the few (if not the only one around today) who relates to things, the world, life, people, everything the way you do... I suddenly get the sense that we are not as alone in the world as we were before we met...

for me, whether we are physical or not matters little compared to whether we are going to adopt each other as family and maybe, as soulmates, as two who link, bond, become two with a connection few if anyone can understand because we're just connected that was inside because of who we are...

maybe we have something vital to teach each other about our respective insecurities (is that a challenge?... can we smile... I feel a smile deep down and hope you do too... I wish I could express how much I hope that)...

am I still invited the next two weekends?...

please remember that the more right I think I am, the more wrong I might be... and please believe that I am offering my best truest friendship here... a level of intimacy and trust you say you've not shared before, but even if you have, I believe I offer a purer, truer, more honestly caring love and trust than any you've known... if you can believe that, then you can believe me (and in me)... if you doubt this, then you will not see me when I am standing right in front of you...

whether you believe it or not, if that does not make complete sense to you, please clarify (for even if you choose to not believe, it's only fair that the message is truly understood so you clearly know what you'd be rejecting)...

I offered it before but if feels more meaningful now... will you accept my hug (if only to test for yourself how sincere my caring is) whenever you feel insecure or down or unsure about anything? (living on hope on the edge of rejection is a way of life for me and I find myself one that edge once again)...

> The absolute only thing about myself that I don't like
> and that I am insecure about is being fat.

why accept not liking your physical self when you can change and like your whole self more?...

and what if I suggest that the insecurity is the real root cause of the fat and not the other way around?...


>It's mostly genetic,

and learned habits... I think families who are overweight teach their children the my sone habits that keep them overweight...

partly because I don't have the desire
> to starve myself every day for someone else's reasons,

I believe your choices should never (almost) be for someone else's reasons...

a healthy diet is not starving at all...

the only reason you should change is because you do not like something...


> and partly because I am enough of a hedonist that I
> don't want to give up anything today for a better
> tomorrow.

in my head, I think I am too... that may be why you attract me so much... now and then, over the last few years, I've wondered if I'll ever be truly intimate with anyone ever again... that is how badly my hurts hurt... my deepest insecurity may be about whether I could ever be loved just for who I am inside... that may go way back to the beginning, to the fact that my birth parents put me up for adoption and my adopted parents did not stay together and my adopted family always put me down for who I was and wanted me to be more like them (insecure, needy, prejudiced, scared of so much, and now that I think of it, fat... chasing me around with very fattening foods, telling me to eat more, demanding I finish the huge portions they put on my plate, ridiculing me for my choice to not conform to their habits to was a constant which was one more reason I pulled away and became such an independent child so early)...

and after the last betrayals I wondered if it was ultimately all my fault (I do believe we are primarily responsible for everything that happens to us, my choices lead to every event and outcome in this life... that is a horrible thought sometimes, given the outcomes of some events, but I still believe it)... I wondered if I was permanently damaged goods... and until someone actually unconditionally loves me no matter what, I may still wonder if I deserve such love...

I often wish I had family and especially kids, more especially young kids, to keep me more grounded and give me a sense of being needed so I would hold on to the dream that someday my princess will come, that someday I will actually find the one who is my ultimate soulmate in every way and we are permanent family trusted unconditionally forever and ever and maybe it'a not all a fairy tale...

does this make any sense to you or am I more screwed up than I ever thought?...

how about substituting one pleasure for another?...

maybe what happens to you happens to me (this is what happens to me)... I find myself alone and sensually hungry and masturbation does not fill all of my free time and reading and writing and other solitary activities does not completely fulfill the sensual hunger and my mouth wants more stimulation and there's no one to talk to or kiss and so I put some food in my mouth and feel the instant gratification and pleasure and comfort of an old friend visiting and stimulating my body through my taste buds and mouth movements and the rush of adrenaline and other chemicals consumed and triggered in my mind and body...

>However, I love sex, I love being desired
> and I love the feeling of not worrying about my weight
> because the person who really matters to me doesn't
> care. I know these attitudes don't complement each
> other.

I always did, I think I still do, but I have much more hesitation about sharing my body than I've ever had before... but then, you can query and ponder and pose any questions to me that you want answers to (dare ya), I am trying to focus on your needs and desires in this response...

could it be, at least partially, an escape...

and perhaps a substitute for something much deeper?

could it be that you want someone to care just so much, but not completely?... I think excess weight is a form of self-abuse...

do you agree?... disagree?... shall we debate this?...

and I care enough to tell you that it hurts me to see you hurt yourself...

am I caring too much or too honestly and openly for you to want me in your life?...

I think sometimes a person does something to hurt themselves in order to test just how unconditional someone's love truly is...

I think that is a form of subconscious manipulation borne of insecurity and does not bode well for the development of healthy self-love, independent inner security, and deeper trust that healthy relationships require...


sex was never as important to me as trust... as an "adult", I have never known a sexual relationship that was truly satisfied... I have never been with someone who turned me on physically to the point where I completely let go... the last time was in high school, which is probably why I consider my heart to be seventeen... my heart longs for that physical lust and trust again...

I think sexual confidence is mostly facade and I can put on that facade when I am comfortable in this body, but I do not take facades seriously... friends and true meaning are beneath the facades... can we help each other?

I think contradictions are traps we set for ourselves when we do not dig down deep enough into them (and into ourselves) to clarify what we really mean and why... eventually we get into the habit of accepting and ignoring the obvious... and then justifying the results...

will you let me help you figure this out... or will you do it yourself?...


>This is baggage but I will share it, because
> it will tell you something important about me. My
> fiance in high school "overlooked" my weight because
> he loved the person I am but it was obvious. He
> looked at other girls with lust but when he looked at
> me the look was blank.

I believe it is foolish to try to lie, even in omission, no matter how well-intended the lie, to one's self or anyone one wants to truly be close to...

I will not intentionally lie to you and if I sense incongruity in my thoughts, I will pause, reflect, let you know I am unclear in my mind, and dig into why and let you know what I figure out as honestly as I am able...

my memory of looking at you is brief, but I loved the look in your eyes and the smile on your face... eyes and lips are the first thing I notice about people... I very seldom use the word adorable... I remember you as adorable...

if we explore a physical relationship I do not want to meerly overlook your weight, I want to learn to love it... it's an unknown for me... I must figure out why I associate excess fat with harm and deeper insecurity that can be harmful... I think about the adopted parents I had and how I was so disappointed that they were in their fifties and fat and could not keep up with me as I was a young child... I think of your baby and want you to be able to run with her (and hope I am part of your life so I can too) and be vibrant as she passed her developmental milestones... am I presuming too much?... am I off base?...

I am trying to care honestly and be a true friend...

>My first husband said I embarrassed him because
> I gained weight when I had two kids, and he traded me
> in for a toothpick.

I believe it is cruel to dump one's own insecurity on someone else as a guilt trip or veiled judgment and I think that is the root of someone claiming to be embarrassed by someone else...

I think I am not insecure enough to be embarrassed by much, especially not by another person... I strive to judge no one and recognize that if I am uncomfortable with anything it is my insecurity or instability and share as honestly as I am able... as I strive to do right here, right now...

>My second husband lost interest
> in sex, and though I know it was mostly because he was
> depressed he said it was because I was fat.

this sounds like an easy excuse, blaming you for his own feelings of low self-esteem and inadequacy based on the limited lifestyle he chose for himself and refused to change...

I've got a whole lot less interest in sex right now than ever before in this life because I've experienced sex being used as an escape from unsettled and harmful issues that ultimately lead to disaster... this has little or nothing to do with you except that you may unconsciously do it too and you've experienced a few disatrous relationships yourself... could just be coincidence, but we're hopefully intelligent enough to find out...

>I really
> believe that if I had looked like Britney Spears he
> would have overcome his depression.

I think that maybe he'd have lost himself in superficial sexuality, perhaps, but definitely would not have found the inner fix to his depression in sexual activity... I think the rest of his life had to change for that...

>husband 3 never
> rejected me because I was fat, as I said, I think he
> fattened me up on purpose so I wouldn't attract any
> other men. He was very insecure.

it sounds like he hurt you by encouraging your weight-gaining life habit (and genetics) in order to keep the balance of power in his favor as much as possible... and you went along with it because?...

(I only pose possibilities now)

superficial body atttraction?

loneliness?

belief in true love, for better or worse?

not wanting to accept a third failed relationship/marriage?

others?...

I do not like being around it... I do not like it on me... some warped voice in my head tells me that it is contageous and on some level I believe it because it, fat, comes from (or is largely effected by) a lifestyle that I have an affinity for, a weakness to fall into...

if we have the inner courage to face ourselves and each other, we might be exactly the challenge each of us need to improve essential areas of our psyche and life (and perhaps just in time)...

I believe this and would like to explore the possibility...

I sense it may require you to accept the feeling of physical rejection and find the inner strength within yourself to see through it all, to expose it for the honest love that it truly is in me... to be a true friend...

and I sense I will have to risk that rejection (my greatest fear / insecurity / issue) by finding the self-discipline within myself to be the true me that I thought was lost in apathy, risking the realization that I have given up on life and myself and it's too late, over, done for me and my dreams...

you said you like roller coasters...

I never want to do any of that to you... it is unknown waters for me and I am not sure how to react... am I a prospective fourth husband?... a prospective father to your children, or at least primary male role model?... are we both so impulsive to explore that possibility now? (that possibility is at once exciting and scary to me and that is a very attractive combination in this life for me)...

maybe this discussion is better to be left for in-person discussing?...

>If you require emotional intimacy first and then
> physical intimacy will come and my fat won't matter,
> then fine.

I definitely seek emotional intimacy first, always have except for one time, in high school (the song "once in love with Amy" always comes to mind when those memories come up)... that was the only drop-dead completely physical love at first sight I've ever known... I've never known passion quite that strong or intense since then... at times I long for it, at times I wonder if it was all fantasy...

eventually bodies deteriorate and I think such physical passions diminish if only because heart rates and physical stamina and abilities diminish over time... as I see my fifties ahead of me, I realize that teenage dreams and perfect body lusts must become a thing of the past if I am to enter a healthy "older" stage of life... I wonder if you pose precisely the questions I need to address at this point...

>But if my fat will always matter, I would
> like to know. I don't want it to be worm that eats at
> the back of my brain (not anymore than it already
> does, I see myself as a very healthy person
> emotionally, but that doesn't mean I don't repress
> certain worries to stay alive and happy).

your fat will always matter, as mine will, but the questions are how much, why, and what we both will do about our mutual feelings about it... I believe I can still learn and grow as a person and I have few, if any, permanently ingrained beliefs or ways of thinking and feeling and perspectives in my head...

fat, yours, mine, ours, any fat will always matter to me... not because of the way it looks, but because of the way it is formed, the behaviors that lead to it's building up, the insecurities and weaknesses indulged to continue the process over time, and the issues avoided that allow the consciousness to accept and justify it all...

I am trusting you with my heart (and me) right now*... trusting that you can understand this, that you dare explore the truth in it (however much there may be), and hope you want to...

I would like to share time and space with you and see, in actual physical reality, just how much of this initial ethereal/mental/emotional excitement carries over into the physical space and time we can share... I sense your mind is an essential missing piece in my life and want to continue growing closer to you... I do not want any fear of losing you and the potential relationship we could have (whatever it turns out to be) to inhibit our honest sharing of how we feel, what we want, and what we share with each other... truth may hurt sometimes, but omissions of essential information and lies hurt way more for way longer...

I hope this answer gives you enough of what you are looking for... I hope we are not tripping ourselves up with words and too much intellectual analysis before we get a chance to actually sit together and hug and make eye contact and take the respective places in each others lives that we can take...

is it all (love, sex, marriage) or nothing for you?... hope not, because it sure isn't for me and it wouldn't make sense to me if it was based on the sense I get about who you are... maybe you do not want/need a friend to unconditionally trust with everything as much as I do at this point in your life...

it seems important to both of us to know, to be reassured... we seem to have both given each other the potential to be very important parts of each others lives... I don't presume to speak for you, but I know I have...

Harry Chapin's song "Get On With It" comes to mind...

as much as I can be sure of anything, I love you already... that love is not as deep as it can be because we do hardly know each other and it is based on instinct and brief glimpses of what you gave, did, and said in brief moments during a wonderfully happy and fun weekend... I feel it can be much deeper... I want it to be much deeper... I want to know you much better than I do... love without detailed knowledge is mostly fantasy, beautiful and fun, but like a cloud...

I hope you come to know and love me and trust me too...

I do not want to be a worm that eats at the back of your brain, which is why I face the thoughts and hope to share them with you now...

I write a lot of words...

I believe that, from time to time, somewhere in them is great worth...

much can be learned about me (or at least maybe questions can be posed) from reading my current daily diary which is online and my heart dreams that are online my downbeats which are online and much more that is publicly available on the web... I do not expect anyone to have the time to read it all or even want to (but I can dream), but I think I have no secrets from the world and my public writing attempts to prove that to myself... and anyone else who cares to know me...

know a little, know a lot, know it all, you choose...

I trust you to determine the truth for yourself and hope you will find the honest love I attempt to share here and always... this is me, vulnerable and in your hands now...

I want to know how much of this response (and which specific parts) inspired a smile or a frown and why... I hope we continue sharing and hold nothing back...

maybe I should shut up and let the weekend come?...

and how are you tonight?...


* fool I am, huh?






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